Comments on: Fred’s Sense Of History http://larison.org/2007/09/07/freds-sense-of-history/ n. the principle of good order "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:12:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: solidos http://larison.org/2007/09/07/freds-sense-of-history/#comment-7628 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:49:08 +0000 http://larison.org/2007/09/07/freds-sense-of-history/#comment-7628 I think Koz's point is valid. Britain and France clearly saw a mortal threat in German hegemony in Europe, and intervened at the last possible moment. Had they allowed Germany to keep Poland, they would have faced a fierce rival for global domination a few years down the road. But contrary to what Fred claims there is no reason to believe that the U.S. sacrificed their soldiers for other people's freedom during WW II. A more down do earth explanation is the government wanted to keep and extend their influence in Europe and around the Pacific. Has any calculation ever been better rewarded, literally? I think Koz’s point is valid. Britain and France clearly saw a mortal threat in German hegemony in Europe, and intervened at the last possible moment. Had they allowed Germany to keep Poland, they would have faced a fierce rival for global domination a few years down the road.
But contrary to what Fred claims there is no reason to believe that the U.S. sacrificed their soldiers for other people’s freedom during WW II. A more down do earth explanation is the government wanted to keep and extend their influence in Europe and around the Pacific. Has any calculation ever been better rewarded, literally?

]]> by: Daniel Larison http://larison.org/2007/09/07/freds-sense-of-history/#comment-7612 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:55:09 +0000 http://larison.org/2007/09/07/freds-sense-of-history/#comment-7612 I have no problem at all with the claim that Americans have sacrificed for other nations. Clearly, our nation has done this and still does so. This perfectly legitimate point gets lost in the exaggeration. Britain and France ended up fighting for their own independence, but that isn't how they got into the war. If Britain had been more concerned to guard its independence, it would have stayed out of the war and rearmed for several years before entering the fray. Britain also had its traditional concern to prevent a hegemon from ruling most or all of Europe, but this concern is expressed through their habit of backing the cause of smaller nations against their neighbours. I have no problem at all with the claim that Americans have sacrificed for other nations. Clearly, our nation has done this and still does so. This perfectly legitimate point gets lost in the exaggeration. Britain and France ended up fighting for their own independence, but that isn’t how they got into the war. If Britain had been more concerned to guard its independence, it would have stayed out of the war and rearmed for several years before entering the fray. Britain also had its traditional concern to prevent a hegemon from ruling most or all of Europe, but this concern is expressed through their habit of backing the cause of smaller nations against their neighbours.

]]> by: Koz http://larison.org/2007/09/07/freds-sense-of-history/#comment-7611 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:42:58 +0000 http://larison.org/2007/09/07/freds-sense-of-history/#comment-7611 I did a doubletake on that one as well. Clearly the point is that US suffered for the sake of other nations, whereas the French, British etc. were fighting for their own independence. It's a debateable point, but one that has at least some justification. The UK bravely fought on behalf of Poland to be sure, but also because they knew very well that Hitler was coming after them. Germany already got their lebensraum and appeasement when WWI victors acquiesced in the annexation of the Sudetenland. When that wasn't enough and Hitler took Poland too that game was up. OTOH, it was very plausible that as far away as we were that Hitler (or Japan) could not be a threat to us, and a substantial part of America thought exactly that. I did a doubletake on that one as well. Clearly the point is that US suffered for the sake of other nations, whereas the French, British etc. were fighting for their own independence. It’s a debateable point, but one that has at least some justification.

The UK bravely fought on behalf of Poland to be sure, but also because they knew very well that Hitler was coming after them. Germany already got their lebensraum and appeasement when WWI victors acquiesced in the annexation of the Sudetenland. When that wasn’t enough and Hitler took Poland too that game was up. OTOH, it was very plausible that as far away as we were that Hitler (or Japan) could not be a threat to us, and a substantial part of America thought exactly that.

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